Democratic Palestine : 1 (ص 34)
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- Democratic Palestine : 1 (ص 34)
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Zionist aggression are part of the
Palestinian people, like the
Christians and Moslems. This is
what the PLO states. Do you
agree?
Yes, that’s right.
The Zionist movement is very
influential among Jews in
America, yet you and many
others are anti-Zionist. What
kind of activities can be done to
limit the Zionists’ role and
increase that of anti-Zionists?
It is very difficult to reach the Jews in
America through Jewish organizations.
They have been closed to me. I'll be
very frank: They won't debate. They
recognize me as a great evil force and
will have nothing to do with me, won't
allow me to have meetings and so on.
What I have done is by publicizing my
viewpoint through books and articles.
Particularly, I have done alot of radio
interview shows. Through these things I
have kept the idea of basic anti-Zionism
and true Judaism alive, both to Jews and
Christians. Don’t forget, when we think
of the word Zionists, too many people
immediately think that Zionists are
Jews. All Jews are not Zionists, and all
Zionists are not Jews. There are many
Christian Zionists. They believe in this
idea; they believe in the ethnic identity
of the Jew, but they are not Jews. They
give support for their own motivations,
their own reasons.
What is your view of the
strategic solution for the
Palestinian and Jewish problem
in the Middle East?
The solution sounds complex, but is
very simple. The solution we are talking
about is not the practical one - what will
happen tomorrow, but the ideal solution
which will happen one day; that is the
two states solution - a Palestinian state
coexisting side - by - side with a state of
Israel, but a state of Israel which
normalizes, de - Zionizes itself, a state
made up of Jews with Israeli
nationalism, not with world - wide
Jewish nationalism. This is very
important, if you understand the
distinction. This state will say, we are a
state of Israelis. When you ask a person
in Israel today what he is, he right away
says, I am a Jew. He doesn’t mean in
terms of religion either; he means in
terms of nationality. In my kind of state,
if you ask a Jew or a Muslim or a
Christian in the ideal state of Israel, he
34
will say, I am an Israeli. There won't be
any such thing as a Jew as a nationality.
In the Palestine state to be, the Jews that
remain there will receive equal
treatment; the Muslims and Christians
that remain in the state of Israel, will
remain as Christian and Muslim Israelis.
There will be Jewish Israelis, who are
Jews by religion only. The idea of a
nation, based on an ethnic nationality of
Jews, goes out the window.
Do you think that this two states
solution satisfies the Palestinians’
national rights to their country?
I think it would satisfy as long as they
realize that the first step will be a two
states solution...Maybe there will have
to be a combination of steps...The
second step is that the state of Israel
must change its basic nature, for it’s not
only its geographical expansionism, it’s
its ideological expansionism, which
views Jews throughout the world as
people who must come to Israel or aid
Israel and its political problem. You
have this abnormal relationship
between a small number of Jews in
Israel and all the Jews outside.
How do you think that Israel can
change its basic structure?
This will have to come from Israelis
and with the quiet prodding of the US
which always took the view that Israel's
ultra - nationalism, that extends beyond
its borders, is something they wouldnt
recognize. Mostly it has to come
through an educational process in which
American Jews will insist to Israeli Jews,
saying: We are Americans, and you have
to give up this fallacious idea that a Jew
is a Jew by way of nationality rather
than religion.
It appears today that there is no
possibility of ‘Israel’ changing by
itself...
No, it can’t; it won't do it by itself. It
has got to be done by outside pressure
from Jews who understand the problem
and the dangers which Israel’s peculiar
nationalism is causing to world peace.
You are right; it cannot come from
within the state.
Only through pressure from
Jews outside, or also from the
Palestinians?
Everybody. Oh yes, no question
about it; that is why I have asked the
drafting committee to put into its basic
statement that we believe that Zionism
is not Judaism, Judaism is not Zionism,
and that to be anti - Zionist is in no way
to be anti-Semitic.
Do you see the US as responsible
for the Sabra - Shatila massacre?
The US is responsible in several ways.
There is no question that at least
Secretary of State Haig knew
beforehand of the war that was going to
be waged by Israel. He had a number of
warnings and was probably aware of
the exact date that Israel was going to
strike. So there is responsibility in that
direction, responsibility in giving
unlimited arms, in joining in_ their
malicious press attack whenever
possible on the PLO, and then the
continued flow of arms and money to
Israel. It meant that we do have a
responsibility and a double
responsibility after Habib made an
agreement with Yasir Arafat, that in
return for Arafat leaving Beirut and
avoiding a slaughter, they would protect
the women, children and old men who
remained behind, and the families of the
fighters. We betrayed the Palestinians in
our promises. The open-handed,
unrealistic, continued flow of arms,
money, rewards, and sympathy to Israel
after it was all over, shows our grave
culpability for what took place in
Lebanon. A lot of Americans feel deeply
about this, but the problem is that there
is no group in America that is bringing
all this opinion to the top.
How do you evaluate the US
role in Lebanon, especially after
the Marines have directly
intervened in the civil conflict,
with US helicopters attacking
West Beirut a few days ago?
The American people won't tolerate
it. | have warned. I put it in the
congressional record. This is the daily
paper on congressional: proceedings,
and sometimes you can get a
congressman to put in a private article
or paper. If you go back to 1975, I put
into the record an article “The Middle
East - Our Next Vietnam”. I think, God
forbid, that may be happening now.
Do you want to say a final word
to the Palestinian people?
Yes, I don’t want them to give up on
any branch of the human race in their
struggle, and to remember that there are
many Jews, many of whom won't speak
up yet, but who talk quietly in utter
horror...Many Jews have paid a price
for their staunch support of justice in the
Palestinian case.
When we think it’s dark here and we - هو جزء من
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