Democratic Palestine : 1 (ص 36)
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- Democratic Palestine : 1 (ص 36)
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democratic state. I do not oppose the
strategy of stages - if your aim is the
establishment of a democratic state in
Palestine, you have to follow the
policy of stages - on the condition that
you don’t lie to the world, or to the
Jewish public in Israel. You should say
the truth: that the independent
Palestinian state is only the first stage
in liberating Palestine, and not as Uri
Avneri and the Israeli - Palestinian
Peace Council say, that this is the first
and last stage. The last stage in
establishing a democratic Palestinian
state is when the Palestinian Jew and
Arab enjoy the same rights under
Palestinian law. The different cultures
and social backgrounds of Jews and
Arabs do not prevent living together in
a united Palestine. Yugoslavia is a
contemporary example. If we are to
use the Arabic terminology: watan
(homeland) and quomia (nationality),
there is only one homeland, that is the
Palestinian homeland, but there are
two nationalities, the Arab and the
Jewish Israeli.
How do you define nationality
in scientific terms?
The terminology of nationalism is
not precise. In short, it is a consensus,
but that is difficult to define in a
scientific or objective way...In the case
of the Israeli Jewish people, an
important development can be
indicated, adding to that the common
Hebrew language and the common
land. We can therefore say _ that
through the process of Zionist
colonization in Palestine, an Israeli
Jewish nation was formed. Of course,
this does not mean that it is necessary
to have an independent state.
I agree with you regarding
the strategic solution, but not
that there is an Israeli Jewish
nation. It is hard to see that
thirty years is enough to
create a nation...
We do not differ on this subject, but
there are some difficulties from which
the Zionist propaganda is benefiting.
There are contradictions between the
political program of the PLO and the
Palestinian National Charter. The
Charter states that the Jews who were
in Palestine before the Zionist invasion
of 1917 to 1948 and their children are
the ones considered Palestinian. I think
it is very important to correct this part
of the Charter, so that when the time
of victory comes to the Palestinians,
every Israeli Jew who is living in
Palestine is considered not as a settler
or occupier, but as a citizen who is
entitled to equal rights.
36
If we agree on this subject, then I
will not discuss whether there is or is
not an Israeli nation. If the Palestinian
revolution gives assurances that all
Israeli Jews have equal rights in
Palestine; if the Palestinian revolution
will not ask any Jew in Palestine to
return to Europe or the US; if the
Palestinian law guarantees equal rights
to all, then we will not differ on
whether Israeli Jews are a nation or a
(religious) sect.
How can we establish this
democratic state?
The PLO is the framework with
which the resistance movement is
affiliated. It is struggling on all
necessary levels: diplomatic, political
and military. We will build a
democratic Palestine by all possible
means. The relative importance of
these levels varies according to the
specific situation. At each stage, you
have to emphasize one level. At this
stage, I believe the most important is
the military. The preferable way to
put us on the path to a democratic
Palestine is to further the armed
struggle in all of Palestine. The peace
movement is relatively strong now in
Israel because there are Israeli soldiers
dying weekly. If the same thing were
happening in the West Bank and Tel
Aviv, then I am certain that internal
changes in Israel would be the same as
we now witness vis-a-vis the war in
Lebanon.
I think the PLO should at this stage
open its membership to the Israeli
Jews who are anti-Zionist. If the PLO
officially declared that this is possible
for anti-Zionist Israeli Jews, who
support.the political program of the
PLO, this would have a huge effect on
the Israeli society. However, this
should not be an alternative to armed
struggle.
What about the role of anti-
Zionist, democratic Jews?
The position of the anti-Zionist Jews
living in the Israeli society is similar to
that of whites, who are opposed to
apartheid, living in South Africa where
the majority of whites support racist
discrimination. Anti-Zionists are a
minority. You cannot move to recruit
them as if you were working in a
(Palestinian refugee) camp. On our
part, we have destroyed the Zionist
moral: we were raised in a Jewish
society; then we raised our voices to
the world saying that Zionism is not a
solution to anti-Semitism; we are Jews
born in a Jewish: society, Israeli, but
we reject it. In my view, the influence
of this moral statement is great.
How do you view the peace
movement and other anti-war
organizations in ‘Israel’?
The emergence of the peace
movement and other anti-war
organizations has great importance,
but I term this a negative importance
in the sense that these movements put
a limit to the government’s freedom to
maneuver. It merely wants withdrawal
of thé Israeli army from Lebanon. The
influence of the peace movement is
largely due to the heroic struggle of
the Palestinian and Lebanese fighters,
but the question remains on this level...
Half a million Israelis demonstrated
against the massacre of Sabra and Sha-
tila, but not even one percent of those
who demonstrated is ready to accept,
or invite, the survivors of Sabra and
Shatila to live with them as neighbors
in Tel Aviv.
How do you evaluate the
resignation of Begin?
I believe Shafiq al Hout (of the
PLO) gave the best commentary - that
Begin was the most recent Israeli
casualty in Lebanon, but not the last
one. In my opinion, it is necessary to
see the structural change in the Israeli
leadership. Until 1977, all Israeli
leaders came from the Zionist Labor
Party. In 1977, the Zionist Revisionists
came to power. Before 1977, the
leadership was from the Haganah;
then it passed to the leaders of the
Irgun, which was led by Begin; then
Shamir inherited the leadership from
Begin. Shamir comes from the Stern
and LEHI organizations. I see in this
continued replacement an expression
of the weakness of Israeli political
strategy. I believe we will face a
dangerous stage in the near future.
The Begin, Sharon, Eitan triumvirate
wanted to correct the defeat of 1973
with their invasion of Lebanon. It is
clear that they have failed. I don’t have
the least doubt that the Shamir
leadership will organize another
barbaric attack to correct the 1982
defeat, and again I have no doubt that
it will fail. It will be more bloody than
Lebanon, but it cannot succeed. I
believe it is our responsibility to warn
public opinion in Israel and abroad of
what could happen, and to prepare
ourselves to face this horrifying
possibility.
What about the future?
I was born in 1943, and if I live to be
seventy, my life span will be longer
than that of the Israeli state. - هو جزء من
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